While I already had my opinion on the matter, it's come to my attention that not everyone shares this opinion. I'm willing to forgive the fact that this is blasphemy and explore these other ideas.
The topic of the day: PUGs and Guildies.
Now, I'm no longer in a guild. So, I PUG or do things with old guildies who still love me. Twice, on two seperate days, right in a row, however, I was removed from a PUG by the group leader to make way for their guildy.
The first was a hopeful ZA clear that just needed a healer. They explained their guildmate had better gear and had wanted to go. I said cool, no big deal, guildies come first, and left the raid. I then went to ZG with some fun people and played with the raptor guy and Gahz'ranka. No mount or tome, but I did get this cool Primal Hakkari Tabard that I lack the rep to turn in.
The next day it was a heroic Slave Pens run (not the daily), which I was removed from not five seconds after joining, with a whispered apology about a mix-up and a guildy wanting to go. Once again, no big deal.
Now, how I see it is that, no matter my reaction, I was not getting to go in this group. Had I thrown a fit or freaked out, all I would have done was made myself look bad. And honestly, in both groups, I had not gone anywhere, bought anything or gone out of my way before I had been removed, so I had not been inconvenienced in the slightest. I didn't need Cenarion Rep; I'm Exalted. And running Raids with PUGs isn't the most fun, I know. So, not a problem in any sense.
I've also been in the position before of having to decide if we keep the PUG we just picked up or lose them in favor of a guildmate. It's a hard decision, especially when it comes to raids. It's even more difficult for the person who has to tell the PUG "sorry, we can't take you" and deal with the lashback. So, understanding that, my feathers weren't ruffled in the slightest.
Of course, this does not mean I advocate elitist mentalities or other such insulting behavior. I simply understand the problem that can arise from inviting a PUG over a guildmate. Heck, I've seen problems arise when one guildmate is invited over another!
I've always thought Guildies Come First.
I was a little surprised that when I mentioned it off-hand to my friend that he became a tad bit miffed. He said he would never ditch someone he had already invited, as it was the guildmate's fault for not speaking up sooner, or being not being online, or what have you. I can see this side of the argument, especially if you're trying to teach your raiders the consequences of not showing up when they sign up.
Still, in the end, pitching a fit won't change anything, and it is a difficult decision. People also apolgize much more profusely about it if you swear it's okay. Apparantly, being perfectly fine with being removed from a group invokes more guilt than if you had bit back.
9 comments:
I agree that if you've invited someone then they are in. You don't drop them for guildies, the guildie should have been on.
That said... I agree with you that complaining to them about it only makes you look bad. I would just quietly accept it and then avoid the person in the future.
What is you were in a pug and got a whisper to group in a guildies raid?
"Sorry guys gotta go.Guild first"
I don't complain because I don't run many groups. As long as they do it early and don't waste my time, sure.
I find it to be largely situational whether it's appropriate to drop the PuG for a guildie. If you're already knee-deep in the instance and a guildie pops up and wants to go...well, tough cookies, should have spoken up sooner. If you're still forming up and said guildie pops up, sorry PuG, guild first.
In both cases, however, if you're on the receiving end, an "okay, no problem, thanks for the invite anyway" is more likely to get you added to a green list as a mature and reasonable player and more likely to be invited back in the future. WoW is a social network and your reputation with the players behind the characters is every bit as important as your rep with the various factions in the game.
I agree with khol drake, it's situational.
Going back to your statement about people seeming to feel more guilty when you tell them "it's ok, no problem". It is showing the other player that you're a nice person. And since there's no inflection in WoW, short of using smileys, people are more inclined to project their own feelings of guilt onto the nice person they're having to dump from the group, than a person who’s more aggressive about being dumped.
This can be especially true if they're told by someone else in the guild to dump the pugger that they invited for a guildie that the player may not like, trust, etc.
I was going to be all thorough and post up my opinions, but really... copy and paste what Dammerung said. I agree 100%.
Serving the cause of brevity,
~Rhoelyn
I'm with khol drake as well - if you're still forming the group and they want it to be a guild run - whatever. But if you're already halfway through, tough luck for the guildmate.
Neither situation is ideal or in particularly good taste, but your reaction is definitely the right one. That said, I'd be wary of grouping with those people in the future.
Thats the downside of being in a group with people mostly from one guild as they are most apt to bring their own people in if they become available. You just gotta roll with it and take it kindly or chances are you won't see any invites from them again. I found it hard enough telling some guildies they couldn't come a kara run because we needed x position or this person needed equipment from that boss whereas you already had the loot.
It's tough no matter what.
heh most heroics i do/get invited to these days are all of people we know.... personally a pug is a pug... and a guild run is a guild run.... no guildies first rule can bleed over to pugging imo.....
I agree about PUGs being PUGs. Last night we did mana tombs (MT) on my little bear alt (she's almost grown up now, sniff). We had a full group, started off, nearly wiped on the first pull, did wipe on the second pull (which was my fault, I didn't see them). Then we decended into an hour of 'person x has to go, we grab person y, person z goes AFK 20 minutes'. I left at that point, somewhat mad at myself at breaking the PUG, but the warning signs were there in the beginning (they couldn't stop talking about the loot they would get from the first boss).
Anyway, cue today. I read an annoucement "Need 1 more for MT and good to go", so i signed on, and they needed a tank, so that's fine, and we wiped through it. Everyone was about 66 or 67, two hunters (one at 70), strong heals. I dont' think anyone died. Certainly no wipes.
Another PUG a few weeks ago, we got halfway through, one person said they had to go take a shower and clean their house. Okay, no problem, removed from group. Obviously they aren't coming back any time soon. We find some more people and continue on. Well, that person shows up 5 minutes later, demanding to know why we removed them, pitches an absolute fit, cussing me out, cussing out the entire party in whispers. Finally the person is on ignore from everyone. They then go into trade chat and bad mouth my guild. At that point I petitioned the GM for harassment. I mean, really...
I think PUGs are very interesting in that you never know what you are going to get, and if you aren't the best player in the world you can still get through, nobody expects the world of you. Only through PUGs have i been able to improve my tanking.
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