The Time is Now, Part Five: Overview and Reader Response

The Time is Now is a five-part series on joining a raiding guild before the expansion. Part One covers reasons that now is the best time to join. Part Two details how to go about finding what you’re looking for in a raiding guild. Part Three describes how to get noticed by and join your chosen guild. Part Four goes into further detail of the pros and cons of joining a guild pre-expansion. Part Five is a cheat-sheet summary with final thoughts and response to any reader commentary or questions.
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It’s been an (unfortunately) long journey to complete this series. However, it can all be summed up easily: if you want to raid in WotLK, and you want to raid in a 25-man, the time to be looking for a guild is now, hence the title. It’s better to be settled in and working with people you know than to enter the mad recruiting rush at the beginning stages of the expansion. You can find a stable environment and even find out if you want to continue raiding 25-mans when the expansion hits. Plus, 25-man experience now will give you an advantage against people trying to get out of the ten-man track.

Readers have had a lot to say about this series, and I’ve picked out some really good ones to bring to the front page and share.

First off, in reply to Part One, anonymous wrote:

one more reason: l2raid now, before wrath hits, and your fellow raiders will love you.

Right. Experience, experience, experience. Running ten man’s is much different than 25’s Learning to synergize with 24 other people, knowing different dps rotations and how your skills buff others is very important. For example, Regrowth is often necessary in tens, but mostly wasteful in 25’s.

Part Two generated a lot more, longer responses.

Anonymous also replied:

We use

http://www.wowjutsu.com/

to rank the guilds on a server. It's impartial and ranks guilds by scanning the toons for the drops they got.

Which is absolutely correct. Though, be careful, if the guild’s members haven’t been queued recently, WoWJutsu can be slow to update ranking.

Another response from Graylo of Gray Matter had this to say about recruitment:

"Most importantly, check who is recruiting. If they’re not recruiting, you need to look elsewhere."

I disagree with this. Recruitment thread let you evaluate your chances of getting an invite, but they are by no means a guarrentee or a wall to getting into a guild.

My perspective may be out of the norm since I play a moonkin, but I have two examples of why you shouldn't pay 100% attention to classes a guild is recruiting.

1) My first 25 man raiding guild wasn't recruiting a moonkin. I apped because a friend had just joined them. They weren't actively looking for a moonkin but they were interested in giving one a shot. I got in and raided with them for almost a year.

2) My new guild actively recruited a moonkin. I apped and got invited quickly. I was also told that I would be the only raiding moonkin in guild. I took a look at one of the recruiting thread they have up and it says they are still recruiting a moonkin. Maybe I should be worried, but the more likely explanation is that they didn't update the class recruitment.

When it comes down to it you should find a guild that best suits your needs, and app. Most guilds will make an exception for high quality applications. Plus you don't know what the situation is in the guild. Maybe one of the resto druids wants to go feral. Maybe they have a player that is a real pain in the ass, but they can't actively recruit in an attempt to keep the peace. Maybe they had someone leave suddenly. You never know.

Whats the worse that can happen? They turn you down and you go on to the next one.

He’s correct, and I’m sorry I discouraged people from going for it. It’s true, you never know until you try. However, I encouraged peopled to look for a guild actively recruiting, as it’s more likely you will not find yourself benched, but with a static raid spot.

Jeremy Rowland also replied:

I recently joined up with a 2/6 Sunwell guild even though my gear and BC raiding experience was a little underwhelming (I was an active raider pre-BC). A few things to add...

* Top progression guilds are almost always recruiting, even when they aren't, if you catch my drift. People come and go, issues come up in real life and players have to take a break from raiding. The best guilds on any server often get enough applicants without asking that they can simply bring someone in. Sometimes they keep an eye on the horizon and will recruit and gear up players (via farm bosses) they see as being at the top of their class, even if there's not a current spot for them on the progression bosses.

* Since this post seems directed to undergeared players with higher aspirations, it's important to stress any past experience you have at playing at the level they will be expecting. Progression guilds aren't about farming loot, they're about wiping endlessly on frustrating bosses night after night, and they don't want to bring you in just to find out you're a loot whore who only shows up on farm boss nights. But also be a little realistic, you're not gonna be useful even in Black Temple with only Kara gear and blues, and chances are guilds aren't gonna believe you've got what it takes anyway if that's the best you've done so far by now, in the era of "welfare epics".

* Be at the top of your game when you get a trial run invitation...I got a guild invite when they were impressed that I was outhealing the tier 6 players in my tier 4/5 and badge gear. It might not be fair, but a stupid mistake or two could cost you an invitation into the guild, so focus and make it the best raid you've ever done. Also, be sure to show up to at least 80-90% of raids for at least the first month and at least 60% for the first 3 months or so, to show you're serious about the commitment.

* Figure out what's really important to you. Do you want to be in the furthest progress guild on the server and top 50 in the world if it means a psychotic raid leader screaming and swearing at you every night? I chose my guild because it was the only top 5 guild on the server whose raid times I could reliably meet, but I was also ready to leave (and have before, from a guild at similar level, in the past) if it simply wasn't the place for me (fortunately they turned out to be a fantastic bunch). In the end, it's just a game, and there are other great guilds out there!!!

This is a great overall summary, with great advice! The comment about raid attendance is of utmost importance; the more they know they can depend on you, the more likely you’ll get a static raid spot through WotLK.

Part Three was the most responded to of the series, and many people had things to say! Most of it is about the logging out in PvE gear and spec.
Ithilien of Tarec’s Hunt-O-Rama wrote about a certain service called CTProfiles:

Re. the logging out in your gear - I've found it easier to post links to e.g. CTProfiles profiles in applications, rather than relying on the armory to be a) up to date b) functioning c) functioning corrently. Far too often have I looked up applicants for my previous guild only to find out their profile was 2 weeks out of date, the armory would be down or it would crash my browser.

Added bonus is that you can define multiple profiles with various talent builds/gear sets on CTProfiles allowing you to showcase secondary gear sets (FR/NR/SR gear sets for example) or alternate talent builds (allowing a hunter to show their prefered MM build for SWP while they're currently BM for BT/MH for example).

It's a bit of a hassle to set it up correctly the first time I'll admit, but the benefits (like always being available for starters) far outweigh that initial drawback.

This is a great service, despite the hassle involved in the initial setup, but it’s good to remember that when you haven’t actively applied to a guild, people will be scoping you out on armory first and foremost.

Jordan had this to say about applying to a guild:

Remember, too, whilst applying to a guild, if you happen to have caught the eye of a paladin in the guild, who happens to also be their multi-class officer and theorycrafter, you've higher chances of getting in. ;P

Of course, if you don’t know this, then it’s impossible to take advantage of. And if you were unsure, yes, he is referring to himself and me, and yes, we are together. ♥ Raiding isn’t just a fun and challenging thing to do, it’s also a way to meet the most amazing person in the world.

Mae of Electronic Escape had this advice to offer:

Those are really great suggestions!! I know for us, we look at armory when we're recruiting so logging out in your gear with everything appropriately enchanted/gemmed is really, really important!

Our guild app specifically asks for armory link, so with us, we get a little perturbed if an applicant doesn't include it. My suggestion would be if you're going to offer a link to something like CTProfiles or Sandbox, which are great, that you put your armory link on there also. If it's asked for an not given, the applications is incomplete, at least for a lot of guilds. We rely on the applications as the first sign that a potential guildie knows how to follow instructions completely. :D

Great post!!

Right on the money. Answer all questions completely. Offer extra information if you want/need to, but always give the guild exactly what they ask for!

No one’s offered a response on Part Four, so I’m either grossly mistaken or intensely correct. Either way, if people do leave important comments, this part of the post will be updated.

I’d like to thank all of you who contributed (knowingly or unknowingly) and for being patient while my life was in moving chaos!

The Time is Now, Part Four: Pros and Cons

The Time is Now is a five-part series on joining a raiding guild before the expansion. Part One covers reasons that now is the best time to join. Part Two details how to go about finding what you’re looking for in a raiding guild. Part Three describes how to get noticed by and join your chosen guild. Part Four goes into further detail of the pros and cons of joining a guild pre-expansion. Part Five is a cheat-sheet summary with final thoughts and response to any reader commentary or questions.
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Let’s just jump right into the nitty-gritty, shall we?

Pros
~Most guilds that survived the summer attrition and the return of many raiders to that evil place known as school have great staying power. This means, barring drama llama explosions, your guild should be around a while, including into Wrath. You should have a stable, long enduring home with a core group of loyal raiders.

~There’s a good chance they will continue to advance in content right up until the imminent release of WotLK. This means gear, bosses, experiences and, hopefully, fun. You know, that thing you’re supposed to have in a game! *gasp*

~Gear may drop like vendor grays for you. The members of Sunder who moved on have gained several T6 and T6 equivalent pieces (as well as TSunwell), many of them within their first few raids.

~Even if your guild does fall apart, you’ll gain the rep of an advanced guild and will have an easier time finding your way into another one. Experience, gear and name can go a long way into easing your application process to other guilds.

~More raid instances cleared = more achievements!

Cons
~Sunwell is hard, and if that's where you're going, watch out. If you’re not prepared to put in effort and don’t have the patience to wipe continuously, don’t put yourself through it.

~All this effort is going to count for naught when WotLK hits shelves. You may be working on KJ, but expect to never see his loots if you can’t get him down before the expansion release date announcement.

~Many large guilds that survived summer may have glutted due to the influx of characters from guilds which imploded. If you’re in that guild, it’s quite possible you’ll be seeing the bench more than the bosses.

~Raiding is expensive. Repairs, potions, elixirs, flasks, oils, gems, enchants and food all stack up to a pretty pricy bill. If you’re trying to hoard your gold for the expansion, raiding is only going to eat right through it.

If you’ve weighed the pros and cons, and it’s still largely positive for you, what’re you waiting for? Get raiding!

The Time is Now, Part Three: Getting Noticed

The Time is Now is a five-part series on joining a raiding guild before the expansion. Part One covers reasons that now is the best time to join. Part Two details how to go about finding what you’re looking for in a raiding guild. Part Three describes how to get noticed by and join your chosen guild. Part Four goes into further detail of the pros and cons of joining a guild pre-expansion. Part Five is a cheat-sheet summary with final thoughts and response to any reader commentary or questions.
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So you’ve found yourself a guild or two or three that you find attractive.

Now what?

Well, you want them to notice and consider you, correct? Then you have some work to do, my friend.

Dress For Success
Always, always, always log out in your gear when you are going to app to a guild. Even if you just begin to talk to some members of a guild, they’re going to look you up. And if you’re decked out in your PvP gear with a Frost Spec when you stated you raid Fire, it puts the person you’re communicating with the undesirable job of attempting to visualize the gear and talents you explain to them. Though easier on a forum to link a talent build or to explain a basic, well-known spec, if you’re just getting a feel for the leadership before you leave an application, it’s best to be wearing your full PvE gear each time you log out.

Talent builds can be explained, but gem choices, enchants and itemization decisions generally take some visual cues to give useful information to a prospective guild.

Use the Looking For Group Channel
This is a very simple trick. Open Looking For Group, click Looking For More, and pick an old-world raid, one that almost never gets any attention from anyone (AQ40 is one such raid), and park yourself in it. This should open your Looking For Group channel. Check who is soliciting for people of your class or role. Are any of them in the guilds you want to app to? If you have the time, then go with them. If you do a good job, are courteous and helpful, as well as that rare “good pug,” it can leave a good impression. It doesn’t hurt to casually ask them about their guild as you’re running, as long as the talk doesn’t distract you from casting Swiftmend at the opportune moments.

Do Organized PvP with Them
What! PvP isn’t raiding!

So what? Lots of people remember that healer who saved their butt back in EotS or that fearless defender of Stables. Just don’t fight in the roads, and do what the premade leader tells you to do. Don’t get upset or frustrated or defiant. Be calm, reasonable, rational. Seasoned raiders become foaming at the mouth frustrated quicker to PvP than a few hours of raid wipes; set yourself apart by not being one of them.

Go on Their Lower Content Raids
No one’s ever really done with Karazhan, and many people can still use upgrades from Gruul’s, Mag, TK and SSC. If someone in your prospective guild runs that sort of content regularly, and it is open to all comers, see about joining up. You are getting your name out there. You want to show up ready, repaired, with all your consumables, reagents and in a PvE spec. Remember, you’re getting your name out there, so always make sure you’re making a good impression.

When you can, be on Vent. It’s always good to hear how a guild interacts with its members and with its PUGs.

Apply to the Guild
Of course, this seems like a no-brainer. If you want to be in a guild, you apply, right? Remember that I said to always log out in PvE gear; well, now it would be best to log out in your PvE spec. Prospective guilds will want to see how your talents interact with your gear, and are likely unwilling to do the calculations themselves.

In general, look at past applications, follow all directions and take more than five minutes to fill it out. Be courteous, responsive, and explain anything you feel you may be lacking. Use any “other information” slots to your full benefit. Do you run old world raids? Do you have six gear sets? Do you have that ultra-rare pattern no one can seem to find? Let them know.

Do not trash players, your old guild or specs. You never know who is reading.

For a more in-depth look into applying to a guild, I urge you to check out Chick GM’s series on applying to guilds. She explains what to do, what not to do, and gives several examples of good and bad applications, recruitment, interviews and the initiation period.

Now, all you can do is wait, and, if you’ve done your homework, you should be seeing at least one acceptance!

The Time is Now, Part Two: Finding a Guild

The Time is Now is a five-part series on joining a raiding guild before the expansion. Part One covers reasons that now is the best time to join. Part Two details how to go about finding what you’re looking for in a raiding guild. Part Three describes how to get noticed by and join your chosen guild. Part Four goes into further detail of the pros and cons of joining a guild pre-expansion. Part Five is a cheat-sheet summary with final thoughts and response to any reader commentary or questions.
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So, you’ve decided you want to join a 25-man raiding guild before the expansion, but you’re not sure how to go about it. You’ve geared yourself up as best you can with badge gear, content available to you, rep grinds and crafting. You know your class and how to play it, you just need the guild to get you into content. You have several resources available to you on your quest.

Realm Forums
Yes, a majority of the players avoid the official WoW forums like the plague due to the high percentage of trolling, nonsense, drama and keyloggers. However, it is one of the most valuable assets in your search for a guild.

Most servers have a Guild Progression thread, and they’re generally well-maintained by the player who starts them. They can detail everything from simply progression to also listing guild leaders of the main guilds and websites in which to contact them. This is the simplest, most straight-forward description of a guild. It doesn’t tell you much about a guild past how far they’ve been able to come pre-expansion, but that’s a great place to start.

After that, check the rest of the forum. Look at @ threads (like @playername and @guildname) about the guilds in the area you’re looking for. Take what people say with a grain of salt, but look at how the members of various guilds conduct themselves. Do they respond to abuse in a way you agree with? Do they make abuse threads? What are players in the same tier of progression saying about guilds and members of those guilds they’re not in? Basically, do you want to be associated with a guild or players that has stigma or creates stigma?

Most importantly, check who is recruiting. If they’re not recruiting, you need to look elsewhere.

It’s your choice, of course, and different people look for different things. But it’s important research, if you’re able to stomach the forums for that long.

Guild Recruitment Forums
If you’re on a low pop server, or are willing to transfer, the guild recruitment (Alliance and Horde) forums is also a good place to find a guild in your range. If you’re unwilling to do the work to read all the posts (and there are quite a lot), you can often post your own character and what you expect from a guild (raiding times, nights, attendance requirements, loot system, raiding expectations for WotLK, etc.) and guild leaders/recruitment officers will often reply.

However, don’t expect many personalized responses, as the guild recruitment forums is too big and there are too many hopefuls for a player to use their time to personally respond to everyone. However, they will leave form descriptions and contact information so you can check them out on your own time.

If you find some you like, check out their realm forums. Do the same search within theirs you did on your own. It’s perhaps even more crucial to check their server size and how many guilds of the appropriate level there are available on that server. If you end up transferring but not liking your guild, it’s good to know what other options are open to you.

The Level One Alt
Whether you’re looking at a new server or scoping out your own, creating a level one alt and heading to a main city can be helpful. Once you’re in a main city, ask in trade (the most commonly spammed and open channel) questions about the raiding guilds on the server. Anything from questions about progression, to who is the best-geared rogue, if anyone has the legendary bow, who is recruiting, or who is breaking up.

The responses you get will be interesting. Some will be ridiculous, like the level 45 rogue claiming to be the best-geared on the server. However, you’ll see how members of various guilds talk about themselves and others, and you’ll get a general feel for a new server. Do you want to be in a guild that openly trashes other guilds, or who doesn’t defend itself in trade, or who does defend itself? Do you want one that doesn’t have the best geared (insert your class here) so you can be of a more comparable level or do you want one with the best geared (your class here) so you have less loot competition?

If you’re so inclined, take notes. Who has a trash mouth, who spams trade, who provides helpful information, and who talks completely different to an anonymous level one alt than they do to you on your 70 may be important to remember. Note what guilds they’re in. You may notice a trend, or you may find that a guild has a wide variety of attitudes within it. No matter who you prefer to raid with, you should find a group of people who suit your attitude.

While you’re in trade, take note of the high level crafters and what guilds they’re in, as well as who is selling bear mounts, Hearts of Darkness, Marks of the Illidari, Sunmotes and epic boe patterns. It’s nice to be in a guild that has enough HoD’s to get you your SR set right off, and who have enough people with the epic patterns that they’re able to sell them. Most high level guilds have a crafter with everything you need, but it’s good to know who is actively in the market. Guilds selling bear mounts can generally blow through ZA with no problem, and may be willing to take you in for your own (and gear upgrades, where applicable).

Your Friends
Ask around your circle of friends on your server. You can often find out more “insider” information about various guilds and players in guilds. This way you can find out who had to bug out Archimonde to get their kills (and haven’t killed him since the fix) or what bosses a guild is stuck on. You can find out things like their loot policies and flubs, how DKP is accumulated or who is on the loot council. Perhaps a known Skettis Tree ninja is in one guild, or in another guild is the only crafter of such-and-such an epic item. Maybe every member of X guild is on every Horde guild KOS list.

Though your friends and other players can be perhaps the best sources of information outside of being in the guild itself, they can also be biased (perhaps Friend Y got kicked out of Guild Z), have misinformation, or be blowing things out of proportion. They may also simply be passing on second-hand information and not actually know what they’re talking about.

Take all the information in, keep a grain of salt handy, and learn all you can.

Guild Websites
If you’ve found a guild or two you wish to join, check their guild websites. Read their charters (if they have one), see their loot system, check their roster (especially those members who are your same class and spec), and look over their forums. If you have access, look at their sign-ups. It may be important to check how much of a waitlist they have for raids and which ones have the best turn-out. It’s good to know, also, which raids are required and which have no penalty for absence. It can also be helpful to know how long the guild has been around to check for stability. If it doesn’t look like it’s going to survive the expansion, it won’t be worth your time.

Read whatever part of the forums you can access. See what threads are available, what people talk about, and how the guild interacts on its website. Also check which forums and threads are locked from your view. What the guild chooses to share about itself and what it keeps from the public can be very telling.

Whether or not you’re ready to apply to a guild, check their application forums, if they have one. Check how active it is, what classes and specs they’re recruiting, if it is well-maintained, frequently updated, and if applications are responded to promptly. If they have a denied/accepted applications forum, read it. This is a gold mine. You can see who was accepted and who was denied. If it’s not stated why they were denied, check them out and see how you’re different from the applicant, and if you can spot any potential problems with their application.

It seems like a lot of work, but not everything is necessary to find a good guild. However, a combination of these tactics should work to give you some options to find your guild.

The Time is Now, Part One: Why Join Before the Expansion?

The Time is Now is a five-part series on joining a raiding guild before the expansion. Part One covers reasons that now is the best time to join. Part Two details how to go about finding what you’re looking for in a raiding guild. Part Three describes how to get noticed by and join your chosen guild. Part Four goes into further detail of the pros and cons of joining a guild pre-expansion. Part Five is a cheat-sheet summary with final thoughts and response to any reader commentary or questions.
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With Wrath of the Lich King coming around soon, you may think it’s too late to join a raiding guild. However, due to the summer months, now is prime time to find a great one.

In the summer, many static members of raids have vacation time or burn out, and positions open up in guilds on almost every server. There are more guilds needing members than there are free agents. No matter your experience, even if you’re just decked out in some Kara purples and badge gear, there is at least a T5 guild who could use you. Many will train you and gear you up, desperate to see content before WotLK makes it obsolete.

But why should you join now? You know the expansion is going to quickly replace your epics, isn’t it? Do you want to put in the time to raid before the expansion?

Well, it all depends on your goals for the expansion. Do you want to raid in WotLK, and do you want to do it “hardcore”? Hardcore being 25-man raiding, that is. When WotLK drops, there will be two choices for every raid group: the 10-man and the 25-man, and the 25-man will be tougher with better rewards. If that’s your thing, and you’re not in a “hardcore” raiding guild at the moment, it might be worth looking into.

You might be wondering why now, if WotLK is in beta and it seems like a lot of work for nothing. Well, if anything in the game seems like work, you should avoid it, so this is probably not for you. However, if it’s something you have held any interest in, it’s worth a try.

Why, though?

To begin with, a lot of raiding guilds will want to be ready at 80 as soon as possible to get into the raids. They’ll want to get into new content as soon as their raiders are leveled and geared enough to take advantage of it.

Recruiting in the beginning stages of WotLK will be a mess. It will be harder to discern what stats, gear and specs people need to have, old players will be returning, new players will be drawn in by the lure of a shiny new game and Recruit-A-Friend, and everyone will be rushing to 80 as fast as possible. So many people will also reach 80 at the same time and be at the same level of gear, it will be difficult to stand out in the crowd.

However, if you’re already in a guild before the expansion, you can skip the need to apply at 80 and can go directly into raiding. Your guild will know that you’re reliable, always bring your consumables and/or know how to take direction (along with many other essential or social qualities). You’ll already be on the inside, so you won’t have to fight through tons of hopeful new 80’s who want into a guild with a reputation for advancement.

There will also be such an influx of guilds wishing to take advantage of the 10-man raids, it will be harder to find a guild that wants to delve into the 25’s. If the guild is established by the coming of the expansion as having the man-power, consistency and will to do 25-mans, there is a better chance that they will continue to do so in the expansion. And if they do fall apart, you will have valuable 25's experience which can set you apart from other fresh 80's.

If for no other reason, it will give you something to do until the expansion comes out and Illidan is being killed by a group of five 80’s, right?