Monday, June 22, 2009

If _____, You Would _____

I want to try something with this post to spur people into writing about something I've been thinking about lately. Basically, I am going to give you situational questions. Exercises, problem solving, etc. Your job is to either in the comments or on your blog (linking in the comments to the post would be wonderful) answer the questions to the best of your ability. Since they're "what would you do" questions, there's no right or wrong answer. I am simply curious.

Ready? Here we go!

1. You've just started a guild. You're guild leader, and you have a decent sized pool of regular players. It's time to create officer positions. You can have six officers. What jobs would you give them, and what character traits would you find most desirable for those officers? Keep in mind, you can have less than six officers, that is just the problem's max range.

2. You're in a raiding guild. You're not a "new" member (you've been around a few months) but you're definitely not one of the senior ranking members. However, you notice that there is a job that could be filled. None of the officers are taking it on, but the GM has stated that he does not want to promote any more. Would you offer to do the job without the officer title? If yes, how would you discuss it with your GM? Would you be hoping for eventual promotion or would you be fine without the title and promotion? If the GM decided to simply pass off the job to an officer and not you, would you be okay with this?

3. You are the GM of a relatively successful progression raiding guild. Within your guild, you have a large amount of couples. One of your tanks and one of your dps are a couple. They will not raid without each other; however one of them is exceptional at their job, and the other learns slowly and does poorly. This situation is slowing your guild down and a lot of adjustment needs to be made for the one who does not do as well. Though you have other people who can fill the job of the person falling behind and their partner, they are inconsistent in showing and for the moment, you need them. What do you do?

It's only three questions, but as you can see they're rather long, and could be complicated. If you feel like only answering one, that's quite fine and I understand. I'll be working on my own answers for these questions and will post them up during the week!

Good luck, have fun.

EDIT: Just a heads up, these aren't problems I'm actually tackling within my guild, they're just scenarios playing out in my head that I've been thinking about. I appreciate the encouragement, however!


Talifalana said...

Good moring Bell :)

I've just started to dive into the blogging community and got a tweet about this post from #TwistedNether. I've posted a reply on my blog at Check it out and leave some comments.

Angelina said...

Oh gosh #3 is a big issue for my guild atm. I'm an awesome tank, tanking it up like a champ. They love me, and I do a good job. My "wow girlfriend" is a dps and does a pretty terrible job, and is not that competetive. They dont want to invite her because we're progression, not happy-go-lucky casual all friends & their wives welcome. What do we do? I dont want to raid without her; she says she wants to hardcore life, yet consistently fails to put in the effort. Someone give me a good answer what to do!

Sunkist said...

Some tough questions and ones that hit pretty close to home for my guild.

Anonymous said...

2. I'd do it, and not be bothered about promotion, sometimes its nice to contribute to something without worrying about the hasstle and responsibilities of the title.

3. I actually exist as one of them couples, my partner is generally slower to pick things up, learn bits and bobs and to get gearing gemming right. They are often late. I spend a lot of aditional time myself going through the boss fights with her, in videos paraphrasing tactics and I usually help with gemming and whatnot. It has had great results. My suggestion would be to speak to the performing member of the couple about said performance and offer guild resources/time to help gear her up. It is unfortunate with the whole couple thing. But us couples do enjoy playing the game together, and not being in the same team, sometimes defeats the object of playing to me. It is the reason I haven't joined a hardcore progressive guild, and I do my best to make sure shes not in the bottom 1/3rd performance wise.

Kayeri said...

Hm ... I have to think about the others, but #2, I did do shortly after joining my current guild... I'd been in about a week, and when I looked at the guild vault for the first time to contribute some things....

omg, it was AWFUL!! stuffed with items both useless and useful, in an completely disorganized jungle... Well, I began poking the GL about taking on that task shortly after that, even though I knew I was far too new to the guild to be trusted with the vault. In fact, when I first mentioned it to him, I admitted it up front. A couple of months went by...

During that time I found i could move things about within a tab without it taking my allotted withdrawal... so I started organizing the sucker, and I put all the 'trash' stuff at one end so I could poke the GL to remove it later.. :)

Two weeks later, he created a special rank that was not an officer but just for me, the new and official guild vault maid. :) My officer-ship came months latert, but I have never regretted the way I went about it. :) In fact, its a source of jokes now. :)

the morale? If you see a job that needs to be done and you know you can do it, then ask for it... you may not get an immediate yes, but gentle perseverance will win the day. :)

Spexa said...

Hi there!

It is late where I am (But good morning to you!) So I will be answering question 3, which stood out to me.

So with that said, Ugh! I am sorry your guild is in this position. It is always a very touchy subject and you are certainly not alone! and I do not believe there is a correct, straight answer either.

If your guild is in a race down the progression track, then you should be taking the best you have. It has nothing to do with who is dating who, and you should not feel guilted into taking anyone into the instance that is not up to scratch. If this is making the "good" player unreliable then you need to not rely on him/her as much. In my opinion this "All or Nothing" deal is putting a cramp on your guild. Can you replace them both? Does the poor character realize they are sabotaging their partner, and their guilds, progression?

If your guild is more casual based? then ultimately you guys want to have fun and the couple will be in their element killing monsters and getting killed by monsters, together. I am guessing its Ulduar that you guys are raiding and remember that you will all be in there for a good long few months so think about how many bosses you have downed, and how long its gonna take till Ulduar is on farm and you guys are bored of it. Perhaps slowing down and enjoy yourselves might be a better plan if you are relying heavily of this party-of-two.

So.. Hardcore? Offer the best players you have, places. If the best don't accept, then replace them. Be firm but kind! You are about dead bosses, wicked gear and skillful tactics.

Casual? Then take people that make you laugh and have a good time. you are about having fun, frapsing hilarious wipes and not losing sleep over a online fantasy game.

I wish you and your guild the best!

Spex <3

Kalon said...

Interesting questions. :)

For #1, I'd pick four officers. One would be raid lead, one would be heal lead, one would be tank lead and one DPS lead. In all I'd want them to desire responsibility and have open communication. The primary goal here would be to allow them to have some power and delegate a lot of the responsibility to them. I would want them to speak openly about issues and their mind, but be able to not take criticism personally.

The reason I'd want 4 is so that you could have 5 total officers and be able to break any ties about things if necessary.

#2 - I don't think I would ever take a position without the actual ability to do things or discuss them at the same level as others. Having the responsibility but not the power is a really easy way to get frustrated and burnt out. If I were in the opposite position, I'd simply leave the position unfilled or temp it with one of the officers until I found someone; if someone offered, I'd start looking at them as a possible candidate for future promotion.

#3 looks painful but is simple: you recruit more until you meet those needs, and you muddle through as best you can until then. This doesn't have to be a couple thing either; this is any time that you have subpar people that you need but don't want. It happens all the time, and the only solution past a certain point is just to recruit better people and then sit both of them. One of a few things will happen: they'll leave, they'll stay and be resigned to not getting in as much, or they'll deal with not playing together all the time. Any of these are good.

But until then, you just have to eat it. And it sucks.

Veroicone said...

1) I to enjoy the idea of a class leader, definitely comes in handy with new recruits. Beyond that nothing too specific, just the general ones that most do (bank person, etc).

2) I'd jump at the chance of doing it - if a promotion didn't happen, then fine. I would just basically tell the GM that I do not mind taking on the role without the official title, who knows maybe I'd do a great job and they'd promote me :P If they did great, if they didn't okay. Now if it was passed to someone else who clearly did not want to do it I'd be a little annoyed but I'd get over it.

3) Now we have couples in my guild - but both hold their own. Honestly, if you're going to hold someone to the same standards as everyone else then it should stay that way. If someone is doing a shit job they should take the responsibility for their own actions and work on it. I would let the couple know that it is not fair that they only run together, and that yes its understandable they're a couple but that doesn't mean they're a couple in the game. But that if they want to continue to run together BOTH parties need to be able to do the work. If the wife can't get it, then she needs to work on what she's doing and get better at it or not return. Because it is not fair at all to the other people in the guild who could fill that role but are not "allowed" to. Especially if they are inconsistent in showing up, which is why most guilds have a set schedule and time so that it is possible for everyone to make it. Exceptions shouldn't be made imho.

Pies said...

I have no experience in running a guild whatsoever, so take it for what it's worth.

1) I would probably need 3 officers/raid leaders: Tanks, DPS, and Healers. They would be in charge of making sure all groups have enough people, and that everyone knows what they're doing. I would encourage taking turns at leading each group at least once in a while, so that they can keep an eye on all the raiders. I would probably also want an officer to run the Guild Bank, and one doing Recruiting.

2. Well, I already have a cool enough job title at work, so I think I can pass on the privilege of being a guild officer. I'll do the job without the title.

3. I would overstaff the particular raid in the area where it's lacking. WoW is about having fun with your friends. I would probably ask the person to try other raid "jobs" -- sometimes a terrible rogue can make an excelent holy paladin, you never know.

If necessary, I'd try to help them level up a new char, or get gear for other spec, of course.

Renoa said...

- Recruitment
- Bank / Guild funds
- Role officer

As a regular 'Core Raider' in my guild, our guild does not have a bank officer. I handle the bank, I just ask any officer online to mail me or trade me the items they want to sell, then deposit the funds. I sell hard-modes in 10 man, and other encounters that sell well on my server. I also handle the website, but I do not pay for it, and I do not pay for Ventrilo either.

Our guild uses DKP: Every officer has the program installed and it is constantly updated, it's just 'whoever doesn't need loot of this boss, do loot.'

As for role officers, they need to have a pretty solid standing of how to handle classes, and the job each raider has. In a guild I was in a long time ago, the officer told me to 'heal everything,' and I think it's the least efficient thing. A role leader has to know what some players are good at doing, what they can handle, and how well.

I would pick officers based on two things: Level-headed, and consistent. I wouldn't want an officer to pick a fight or get angry or upset with some comment someone may throw out. It doesn't matter that so and so does the Joker impersonation on vent, you just listen. If these people you choose aren't consistent - what job are they doing being offline? With level-headed comes the ability to be diligent and honest in your job.

I do this on a daily basis - so I see no problem. A month or two after I joined, I asked my GM if we could go into a locked channel. I brought it up with her that the guild bank doesn't always have gold, and that we would give members most of the BoE's for DKP if they were BiS/second BiS. I told her that I would be willing to manage the guild funds - without the title. I make a solid ~15k a week for my guild just by playing the AH, herbs, ore, BoEs, orbs. If this job isn't management, and maybe you want to help with something else, it isn't much different. I don't think people need to be recognized, I know some players like myself (as a resto druid, or any healer) I prefer to watch health bars, listen to vent chatter, and not be in charge of 24 other players, and more if they are sitting. It would become too daunting for me. But those who don't have a problem with this, I'd say kudos to them, and go at it.

My guild also has encountered this issue, where one player excels and one holds the raid back. I understand the difference between 'progression bosses' and 'farm lol loot night,' I think the situation can be handled in many various ways. We usually take both, and let the slower/mediocre player catch up with the coaching from someone that has done it/can help them. We usually do the coaching part. But I have had some experiences where when one refused to raid without the other, they would both be sat because they are knowledgable about their significant others mediocre gameplay. Or if this couple is tank-tank, tank-healer, tank-dps, healer-dps, whatever it may be, work with them. Do you need this encounter? Is there too many dps/healers/tanks? Get them to figure out how they want to play together, they don't need to be standing right next to each other on every boss just because they're a couple. But that's just me.

Sorry it was such a long post.

Petal said...

I answered mine right here:

... and realized I'm kinda a bastard. lol

Joris said...

Hey, for the 2nd question.
I'm not new but definitely not senior to my guild. I do however since 2 weeks make healassigns during raids, since it just works better that way. A few nights ago during a bossfight, I ordered another healerto do something different then the officers told him to do, he did it and with success.
For the rest if you do a good job, other healers will notice it and praise you for it.
That all makes it fun to do. :)

Must say though, I'm always curious of what goes on int /o

Troy said...

No comment on Item one...too much work!

Item 2, if it is a job that needs to be done and the guild will be better for it I am all over it. Title is not important and I will put it that way to the GM. If he passed it to an officer over me, no big deal. Just seeing that it is being done would be reward enough.

Item 3, by definition you have stated that you are a successful raiding guild. To me that means that these types of things are easy enough to deal with as you go. If the under performer is only that, an under performer than I would live with it. One person in a 25 man is not going to have that large of an impact over all. Assuming that they are just a bit slower on the uptake but they do get it in the end then I see no reason to loose an A+ player because we can not live with a little bit of slower progression. And since this is not a hard core over the top raiding guild, because if it were this scenario would not be happening, you should be happy with the results. In the end, it is about having fun and that is hard to do if you have the drama that would come from ousting the sub par player and possibley loosing one of your best to boot.

Anonymous said...


My scenario: casual raiding guild, 3-4 raids per week, low attendance requirement (50ish%), but dedicated raiders.

I would have 3 raid officers. Each responsible for one group each (tank, healer, dps) and all able to raid lead. Their shared responsibilities include deciding goals, strategies, and requirements for raiders. I would emphasize traits like being level-headed, able to take constructive criticism, able to adapt and being organized.

I'd have an officer in charge of recruitment. This person would assist the raiding officer when judging performance. I'd want a person with good people skills and a good judge of character.

I'd want 1 person in charge of the guild vault. This person should be a skilled organizer.

The last officer should be in charge of the social aspects. This includes organizing anything not raid related, and managing website and voice com. This person would also mediate in conflicts. I would emphasize being level-headed, a good judge of character and patience


If the task is one that requires no special instructions/directions, I'd offer to do the job without a title. An example is managing the guild vault.

If the task is one that would require and benefit from officer discussion/brainstorming, I'd explain to the GM that in my opinion the task requires an officer to perform it, and I'd volunteer to do it if promoted, but not otherwise. An example is being e.g. healer leader.

If the GM passed the job on to an officer, I'd appreciate an explanation, but see no reason to be unhappy about the GM's decision.


A difficult question. First off I'd confront the couple. Trying to let the lesser skilled player down easily (he/she might not be aware of the negative impact they have on the raid) while asking the skilled player if they are able to see what impact the poorer skilled player has on the raid. If no, I'd first of all be appalled at the lack of insight, then without a doubt be able to live without him/her and attempt to recruit to replace them both.

If the better skilled player is able to see that their significant other is slowing the other 8/23 people down, I'd give them a chance to help their partner improve. I would also pull in skilled players of the same class/group to give more specialized help than the significant other can give. I'd set a time limit for achieving results. If there's improvement, I'd put guild funds at their disposal to help further develop the character. If no improvement, I'd refuse to take the lesser skilled player, and risk losing the better skilled player as well.

If the desire to play with their significant other takes the high seat, they need to find a different guild, where the lesser skilled player is welcome as well, and the more skilled player would have to settle for raiding differently and for other reasons.

Seeing as the guild is full of couples, there is always the risk of this not being looked upon kindly by some, a reaction which is likely to rub off on other couples, but if people's focus is on raid progression, they should be able to see the necessity of my actions.