4 Haelz

Bell - I'd take your hunches over gigabytes of spr...

2009-12-23T17:08:56.455-05:00

Bell - I'd take your hunches over gigabytes of spreadsheets and analysis any day. Don't feel bad about posting what feels right to you! Hope the RL stuff sorts itself out for you!

Hope you're okay bell /hugs Take as long as you n...

2009-12-23T16:47:58.712-05:00

Hope you're okay bell /hugs

Take as long as you need :)

Hi, This isn't the worst post in the world and do...

2009-12-23T16:20:23.222-05:00

Hi,

This isn't the worst post in the world and don't beat yourself up for it. You placed yourself in a visual position and that's a lot more than what most (including myself) do. No one will ever be absolutely correct and to spend excessive work on your own trying to come up with the end all solution is a waste of time. Its much better to have discussion among your peers to come about with the best solution. What you said about not gemming for haste does have some merit and should not be entirely disregarded and this is why I believe that is so.

I'm not sure how into DPS you all are, so if you already know this sorry for the explanation. As DPS your goal is to get hit capped through gear, not gems or items that only have hit on them. The same should go for resto druids attempting to reach haste cap. You do this for two reasons...

First off, items have diminishing stat returns...check out low level items, there's a lvl 25req 2h mace that can either have 25str or 13str and 13agi (1 extra stat zomg). The more of one stat you have on an item, the more iLvl of the item that stat eats up. So what you want to do is find items that have a combination of useful stats to abuse this as much as possible. With the position resto druids are in right now with SP and haste being nearly equal, we are in a prime position to abuse the hell out of this.

Second, gems are immune to what I just stated. They aren't restricted by diminishing returns, so you want to push your primary stat as much as possible unless you can pickup a good socket bonus that usually has enough primary stat to compensate.

If you are under 735 haste, then you are in a temporary position in gear where haste comes out slightly ahead of SP. Does that mean switch out all your gems to haste? No. In fact, if you go with 12SP/10H orange gems you gain 1 SP out of the deal.

Finally, remember hitting haste cap will only give you full benefit in 25 raids. Also, its not worth breaking T9 4p for the extra potential haste in 2 pieces of gear to reach haste cap.

Bye.

I'm a fresh 80 dk and grouped into Occulus (first ...

2009-12-23T15:29:55.926-05:00

I'm a fresh 80 dk and grouped into Occulus (first time "ever" there on any of my toons). I told the group that... reply was "nice". I just told them I am competent at my spec (unholy) and am not an aggro nor pull king. A little confusion for me with where to fly but the run went really well.

Just came across your blog for the first time. I'...

2009-12-23T15:16:29.986-05:00

Just came across your blog for the first time. I'm adding it to my bookmarks, because it is seldom that I come across blogs that are written "from you to me" (e.g. another good, personable blog would be Big Bear Butt).

I think you need to just sit back and take your time.

Bell, real life always comes first, we all know th...

2009-12-23T15:08:51.585-05:00

Bell, real life always comes first, we all know that. And you stated your view, and there is nothing at all wrong with that. In your view, spellpower trumps haste. Math or no math, this is YOUR opinion and you put it out there as you have every right to do.

Spellpower vs haste is something each of us will have to balance against our needs and playstyle. There is never a one-size-fits all formula that matches everyone's needs. There are just too many variations on playstyles, raid compositions, and fights for that to effectively happen.

You know I've not been happy with my haste and although it is improving, I would like to bump it some more. But I am not regemming to do it myself. I need my spellpower and my regeneration to keep going the way I do now.

ICC has proven a challenge for my little guild, especially over the holidays when our heaviest-hitters are off with family for awhile.

So you take care of YOU, because you know we'll be here when life sorts itself out. ;)

Spreadsheets do not account for baddie [insert DPS...

2009-12-23T14:30:14.292-05:00

Spreadsheets do not account for baddie [insert DPS class here] pulling aggro, or people standing in fire, or firing off a heal to assist a tank healer when the tank is precariously close to death. They do not account for the [insert buff provider here] dying unexpectedly and your [insert buff here] dissipating.

They model nice, smooth [PICK ONE: single target healing/DPS/raid healing] in a sterile environment where there is nothing to break the carefully computed cycle. In theory, that's great. In practice, it NEVER HAPPENS THAT WAY.

Gear may well get to the soft cap, WITHOUT gemming...

2009-12-23T14:12:40.911-05:00

Gear may well get to the soft cap, WITHOUT gemming for haste, and without speccing into Celestial Focus. I'm now in the ~720 haste ballpark with ZERO haste gems. With Wrath of Air and Imp Moonkin up, plus GotEM but no CF, what does that translate to?

1.023 GCD. 23ms short of 1 second.

Once even minimal lag is considered - is gemming the rest of the way to 814 haste rating really going to make a difference, trading away 115 SP in the process? T10 and similar ilvl gear will cover the rest of the gap.

My first piece of advice to resto druids running ICC: Get the staff that drops from Deathbringer Saurfang on 10-man. INT/STAM/SPI, plus equip bonuses of SP and HASTE. How much haste? ~130. Nearly one-sixth of the total haste required to reach 1-second GCD - in ONE SLOT.

My personal experience thus far says that wasting the gold and SP to get to 814 will grant ZERO benefit.

I have been following your blog for quite some tim...

2009-12-23T13:22:40.753-05:00

I have been following your blog for quite some time now, but have never left a commment despite learning tons from your posts. I think blogs exists to offer different viewpoints. As to whether these viewpoints are "right" or "wrong", it is all relative.

Still, kudos for being able to admit that you might be wrong. Not everyone has the guts to do that. Thank you for your honesty and hope everything works out for you soon.

This post and the sentiment and reasons behind it ...

2009-12-23T12:07:39.070-05:00

This post and the sentiment and reasons behind it are why you are such an awesome blogger Bell... for me more so than whether the gemming haste post is right or not.

Not sure if that makes total sense or not (I've been kinda non-sensical lately...)

Anyways, here to your real life drama winding down and things working themselves out soon.

/tree hugs

Honestly? most bloggers don't spend 10 hours worki...

2009-12-23T12:02:24.421-05:00

Honestly? most bloggers don't spend 10 hours working out math before suggesting something in a blog post. That's just not really reasonable. Sometimes, I just go with my best judgment and re-edit things as people disagree.

We're humans & not paid to blog. People are free to disagree, and even the theorycrafting math is flexible. Rawr's calculator will gem what you tell it to, and the gear priorities change based on the gear you currently have, and the information you plug into the calculator.

It's almost impossible to make a guide that is going to apply to every single person who is reading a blog.

As an important note, please be aware that this is...

2009-12-23T07:42:59.714-05:00

As an important note, please be aware that this is probably the worst thing I've ever written. I'm not removing it because people have discussed some important things in the comments. I am, however, working on a rewrite that is being slowed down by the holidays. You can keep reading this and writing comments, but please be aware that much of it needs revision, clarification, deletion and editing.

Your post is really frustrating, because while you...

2009-12-23T01:56:52.915-05:00

Your post is really frustrating, because while you're clearly a capable healer, your explaination is basically just "it doesn't seem worth it to me".

Math? Theorycraft? Regemming haste does alot more than change the GCD. Your rejuvs tick faster, and every non-instant you have casts faster. So... any reason other than your instincts?

Hey Bell, Hope everything is going well for you a...

2009-12-22T14:53:51.808-05:00

Hey Bell,

Hope everything is going well for you and Merry Christmas!

This is probably going to be lengthy so bare with me.

@anonymous;
You are correct and the math is correct that haste to cap will always be more beneficial than SP. But, it only by a small margin. The idea is not to overload your gear going in one direction while completely ignoring the true power in a resto druid grabbing more SP. You do have to remember that Bell is writing this for all levels of druids both ICC 25 hard modes and the level 79 getting ready for the leap to the world at 80.

I haste capped using CF and thats how I'm running today. My gear will eventually catch up to the elvels required to spec out but until then I use this method. Once I do hit haste cap I am debating on whether I will respec still.

All math aside your highest HPS is only determined by 2 things for druids. 1) how many hots can you have rolling simultaneously and 2) how much damage is the raid actually taking. No matter how many sims you run on optimal spell rotations and stat allocations healing is not and never will be a role that relies as heavily on the math as dps or tanking. It simply has too many human factors in it for the math to be reliable anyways.

With that said

@Bell;

Haste to GCD cap is just as important as it was before teh gotem change. We geared for it then and we should gear for it now. As long as the game mechanics are your limiting factor you are golden.

I was able to put together a rather nice haste set where I actually gained SP and only had to use 1 haste/SP gem more than I already had. Unfortunately I did this at the loss of some regen but since I was swimming in mana before it's nothing I can't cover with a mana pot and innervates.

TLDR;
Haste to gcd cap is still the way to go if you are in a raiding roll that requires it.

SP is just as beneficial if you are not in a min/max or die situation.

When I heal Forge of Souls, I just let the Mirrore...

2009-12-22T06:31:32.097-05:00

When I heal Forge of Souls, I just let the Mirrored Soul target die. I'll throw up a Rejuv on him but that's about all. I don't support brute forcing encounters (especially something as simple as this). If we wipe, we wipe, and I'll tell the group why they wiped.

Heylo there, Bellwether. I dreamed that I was in ...

2009-12-21T21:27:15.681-05:00

Heylo there, Bellwether. I dreamed that I was in a pug with you last night so I felt it appropriate to drop you a line :)

I have had great success using the random dungeon tool as a tank. My main issue is when somebody else is given group leader, and they clearly do not know how to be a group leader.

I have found healing Forge of Souls to be difficult because pugs do not understand the concept of 'stop dps during mirrored soul', and I haven't healed Halls of Reflection yet.

I always remember you as a capable and well geared player, the epitome of her class, so it troubles me to hear that you are having difficulties. I hope that your future pugs are more reasonable and less difficult for you to complete.

Also, have a Merry Christmas :)

Ok, So your reasoning for not regeming haste is th...

2009-12-21T17:36:03.623-05:00

Ok, So your reasoning for not regeming haste is that rejuv's throughput is increased by spell power more than anything else. Gemming haste would only get you a little more benefit on getting to that GCD minimum.

Unless you glyphed rapid rejuv...
Then your rejuv's throughput would be directly related to your haste, and you would be able to lay more of them out (on less people before the first one ticks out).

A 5xRejuv+WG rotation gives you 15 people getting your love in 18 sec. Unless you're not haste capped, then you're either doing 4x+WG, or 5x, and messing up your 18sec rotation.

If your raid is taking damage though, and your rejuvs aren't topping them off, then you are blowing a GCD on giving them something else to top off with, or expecting to have someone else pick up the slack.

And all of that is fine... unless your hot rotation isn't topping them off. Then you're just slowly killing them.

So if the damage throughput is exceeding your heal throughput, increasing single target heals would be more beneficial to you, considering they stay alive and kill the boss so you get loot.

Which is where Rapid Rejuv would come in. And haste. Lots of haste. And maybe even holding onto that 4piece bonus from t9.
(I have no numbers, just thoughts running through my head.)

I think heroic ICC is going to have a lot of raid damage for us. And as always, a lot of movement. However, the encounters haven't been run enough for us to know exactly what we're putting up with, so we don't know if having more rejuv throughput on less people, or less rejuv throughput on more people will be better.

I'd like to see someone run the gemming numbers on glyph of rapid rejuv. I'd imagine that if encounters need us to glyph it, they probably need us to gem to haste cap too (or maybe even beyond).

An important thing to remember for a resto or moon...

2009-12-21T15:23:48.773-05:00

An important thing to remember for a resto or moonkin and having so much haste is that you CANNOT spam till your fingers fall off, there is a balance that needs to be maintained, if you are finding yourself OOM in ICC; your group is not pushing enough DPS and/or you are spamming too much.

Hmm... I stand by regemming some of gear for haste...

2009-12-21T15:21:36.672-05:00

Hmm... I stand by regemming some of gear for haste, I believe in balance as well! Haste = Strong, if your not gemming for haste you are seriously hurting your heals. Druids never needed huge amounts of sp to be affective, but if our speed is cut and we aren't able to blanket effectively then honestly the druid should be replaced in the raid.

Short = Druids never needed HUGE spellpower to be good healers but our fast ability to blanket HoT's give us a spot in raids.

I have used the dungeon finder tool a lot since it...

2009-12-21T09:04:50.776-05:00

I have used the dungeon finder tool a lot since it came out and have come up with a few rules that i stick to.

If i'm on my healer i check the hp and dps of each member. so i know what to expect. (who could grab aggro and how fast i will have to react)

If tanking i start slowly and check dps and healers capabilities and speed up if it's do-able

If i'm dpsing i go all out on the first few trach pulls to see the quality of the tank. if he doesn't hold aggro i'll ease off for the rest of the run.

So far it's worked ok.

Lovely post. Really touched a cord."just because i...

2009-12-20T16:45:24.004-05:00

Lovely post. Really touched a cord."just because its easy". I have tried tanking recently. My gear has been getting better and better. And yet more wipes. High dps attack the wrong mob, or just pull aggro, expect me to control everything even though i am new. Then it all turns to custard. Now if that happens, i ask for courtesy and if its not given then just leave. If i am not having fun why stay, other people will be better.

Thanks again
J

I've been very fortunate in my (Level 80, I should...

2009-12-18T21:18:23.327-05:00

I've been very fortunate in my (Level 80, I should specify) pugs where the worst thing going on has only been someone needing on the frozen orb at the end. My Shaman who's healing his way through outlands...is another story entirely.

I guess you just win some and loose some, the wins send you merrily back about your day, and the loses cost you 50gold, an hour, and an ignore slot.

@Anonymous - Thanks very much! Like I said, I'm no...

2009-12-18T16:33:03.856-05:00

@Anonymous - Thanks very much! Like I said, I'm not big on spreadsheets for healers, but I've been wrong before.

I'll have to take a look at it after I'm done packing/going home/embarrassing myself during TF2 free weekend.

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t77211-treecalcs_wrath...

2009-12-18T16:26:26.558-05:00

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t77211-treecalcs_wrathcalcs_respecced/

Its somewhat clunky to plug in your own stats, so make sure to save after using.

When comparing SP to haste in terms of HPS on the spreadsheet, remember 1 SP != 1 Haste. To find an approximate iLvl value simply multiply by epic gem values, so SP*23 and haste*20.

I have had similar experiences using the new syste...

2009-12-18T16:05:33.132-05:00

I have had similar experiences using the new system, also mostly with OK and Occulus.

I had a tank in OK wearing greens and a DTK trinket (I kid you not). I tried to heal her but it just wasn't possible.

On the flip side I've had groups that really do know their stuff. Typically though those groups are also so well geared that it just doesn't matter.